Namezor and other things

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Grendal, 24 Feb 2009.

  1. Namezor and other things

    Alright guys, we already had the discussion multiple times, but never anything happened. Yesterday I had a talk with Myke (for those who shall not know him, he is a former leader of GM) about the way GM is going and some other things. Also we talked about the name GamingMasters. Everybody here knows that this name is just immature, and not a bit suitable for a "25-Member-Top-Gamer-Clan". So Myke told me how he wanted to change it, but no leader seemed to like the idea. If you guys want to I can tell you the way he wanted to do it, but that is not neccessary now. What I would really like to know, from the new members, too: Do you guys want to change the name? Weapons of the Rebellion was from one season to an other Team Coolermaster, The Last Resort was Memento in the next season. And to be honest, if this top clans don´t care about their reputation, why should we? GM´s reputation is the one of a fun clan, from my point of view a name change would be a good step to lead GM in the new direction.

    Also I don´t really know about eighty percent of the clan members. The GM I joined is Disco, Vacoy and Beau for me today. All other people who were here when I joined are inactive or left. When I joined GM was like a family. You needed to be known (I waited about six weeks to get accepted), be liked and it was more like a funny challenge to join GM. I don´t have the time to play much TF2, and I will definetly not get in this new Pro Gamer Clan thing. When the new system workes, GM will get a top clan, if not, GM will die. The risk is that the core of friends in the clan won´t have any space in this system, so they gonna leave. What is left is a core of semi-professional gamers, without any friendship. And as I see it, GM will die with this way. I friggin miss core and his "...why not?" way, and the new GM gets too much military structures from my point of view.

    I don´t want to be a member of a 150 men community, I want to stay a part of the GM family, a family you don´t get in by skill.

    Thanks for reading,

  2. IAmNomad Ex-Leader

    Re: Namezor and other things

    No. First of all, I don't think the name is that bad, but I can see why some people don't like it. Whether it is a *good* name or not is a matter of opinion, though. I don't believe it has any affect on anything. Our reputation is built on the people in GM and has nothing to do whatsoever with our name. "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
    For another thing, we have been "Gaming Masters" for almost a year now. If we changed our name, that would be a year of building up name recognition among the public wasted.
    Finally, a name change would be a huge problem from a technical standpoint. Darkimmortal can lend more insight into that issue, but trust me - it would be extremely difficult and impractical.

    Look. There has always been tension between the people in GM who are interested in playing for fun and the people who are interested in playing competitively. The first thing everyone needs to realize is that not everyone can get their way. Even the leadership is often divided on these issues. But the thing is, the leaders have done their best to maintain a careful balance between the two sides, and as a clan, we are a good enough group of people to be able to reach a compromise and live with one another. The reorganization is an attempt to improve this situation further, and to try to help people become a bit happier with their experience in GM, and improve GM overall, in terms of reputation, size, and its ability to serve its members. Is it going to please everyone? I'm certain it won't. But we are doing our best to please the majority of people on both sides of the fence.

    EDIT: Removed my response to a deleted comment. The person who wrote the original statement regrets it and has apologized.
  3. Re: Namezor and other things

    The only requirement to get into GM now is a regular presence on the servers and forum - please explain how that equals a 'family you get into by skill'. As for the name change - that was being discussed before Christmas and isn't even on the table any more, maybe if you had more of an active presence in the clan you would be rather more up to date, as well as knowing the 80% of members you say you don't?

    As for the new system - those who want to can be part of the competitive side and have access to a forum where they can discuss their issues/arangements, those who don't want this won't have access, i'm not sure I see a problem with that. This will NOT result in a pro-gamer clan, instead it will result in team(s) that will play competitively if they want to, or play random mixes when they can if they like. We are simply trying to create a structure which can support all levels of the game - the thing that makes GM so awesome is the shared sense of fun between all of those involved with it, I think this still remains and the day I think it has gone will be the day I leave. Finally, please do not tell me that this will result in all competitiveness and no friendship - I play in the 6 v 6 leagues because I have a solid group of friends who I enjoy playing with. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for this friendship I would not be playing competitively.
  4. Ash

    Re: Namezor and other things

    I really cant see what is wrong with the name what so ever.. (doesn't sound immature at all)

    I haven't been in the clan long but I really can't understand where these complaints/whines are coming from about sorting the structure of the clan out etc.. it seems quite simple and straight foward to me.. GM is a friendly clan with people that get on well with each other.. and if you wan't to play competively you just start a team inside the clan.. ;o I really can't see what is wrong with this system? it allows for members that aren't interested in competitive play and members that are which leaves a nice atmosphere and less/no drama between the two..

    Correct me if im wrong and theres something im not seing though? ;o

    /Ash confusion end.. xD
  5. Th-

    Re: Namezor and other things

    I can only say +1 to Nomad and Pissmidget, and just add a few things from my perspective

    Have you noticed how the appearance of a name tends to change with its reputation? For instance if you had a team called "delirium", it wouldn't seem like anything else than a random group with an odd name, but when you hear that "delirium is actually a division 1 clan you start to think its a thoughtful name? Nomad did well to point out that we have built year's worth of reputation for our name, and changing it is no longer considered.

    +1 to Nomad about your involvement Grend. I'd add that even with a large community, friendships and groups will exist even though all ppl don't relate with each other daily/weekly. Just to know that we live by the same values is plenty, and every member is part of his close circle of online friends.

    Some challenge might be added to recruitment, but we are still a "Private Community" where personality matters more than skill, though once ppl get in we plan to give them a training program to get to GM level of TF2 standards. It won't be too difficult if one plays some hours weekly.

    During my earlier life I opposed military pretty much (an irony, right?) but since then I've noticed we can apply some of its methods here very successfully, be it ingame or on forums and organization. Would you like to be more specific about what you don't see good for GM in terms of organization structure?

    Seems that you have deleted your own post Geit, and I can see why. I strongly recommend you give your opinions about our values and goals in another topic, because when those are clear everything will get perspective. For instance, everyone can voice their opinion whatever it is like as long as there are arguments with them. Calling something stupid/elitist without any reason will just be considered an offense and an incoming warning.

    On final note I'd like to remember Core's legacy and suggest you guys get on server to chill out. Btw I got a challenge from a new TF2 community... we might have a match soon.

    @Ash: That sounds about right, although history has thought us that teams inside this clan have both positive and negative aspects. This is why we will give only some limited support to teams that are being founded at this time, before concentrating on a specifically competitive clan faction. Still I encourage ppl play gathers and mixes with Dj and is team, and maybe sign up to a league and see how you do.
  6. Re: Namezor and other things

    I want the name to remain the same. it gonna be to much for us as a clan to built up our "new clan name".

    [wide=400:1tkxcr8v][center:1tkxcr8v]Gaming Masters 4 ever![/center:1tkxcr8v][/wide:1tkxcr8v]

    that's it, my pancakes <3 are getting cold.
  7. Vacoy some sort of fucking fish

    Re: Namezor and other things

    why am I not seeing any responses to this part?

    I agree a fully 100% with grend here, that is exactly what I've got here right now, and that is the reason why I will leave or take a long brake for gm at least. This warm, and nice family is sorta gone. I'm not saying all new guys are not nice. But I don't even know 50% of em, It's going way to fast.
    I do not want to tell you guys that you aren't suposed to do it that way, but if you do. It'd be without me.
  8. IAmNomad Ex-Leader

    Re: Namezor and other things

    Pissmidget already did address this, but I'll give it a shot:

    There is little excuse for this! There are only about 40 members. You only know 8 members?? That's your problem, not mine. I log into the forums every day and play on the servers when I get a chance, and I can honestly say that I interact with almost everyone, in some capacity, regularly.
    Yes, many people have moved on, because they had rl pressures, or got tired of TF2, or whatever. I don't think it's fair to hold us responsible for the decisions of those individuals.
    When you joined GM, the clan was still in it's infancy, barely two months into it's existence. Of course it was smaller and a closer-knit community, but you couldn't expect it to stay that way forever. People came and went. We had to allow new people in to replace the ones that left. Do we "know" the people who join GM now? Probably not very well. Do any of us really "know" each other? Did I "know" you before you joined? Do you know how well I was "known" when I joined GM, two days after it was formed? A prospective recruit has to be around at least 2 weeks before they get voted on. If you don't "know" them well enough, then vote 'no'.
    Okay, that's your option. I also don't have much time to play TF2, and with a full-time job and as the head of a household of six, I already know that I can't commit to regular training and matches. But that's the purpose of the changes: to better serve the needs of the casual player as well as the serious player, without short-changing either one.
    GM is far from being a "top" clan and it is far from dying -- in fact, it is growing, if slowly. There are plenty of clans that aren't "top" competitive clans that are doing just fine. Look at GFL as an example. The purpose of the changes is to provide the space that suits each individual, so that they will be more content with their experience within GM. I don't see how that would lead GM to it's demise.
    I miss Core, too. I think we all do. There were positives and negatives to his style of leadership. There are positives and negatives to ANY style of leadership. The leadership that is in place currently represents, I feel, a wide variety of styles, so that no one style or no one leader's voice is too dominant. I'm sorry you are not happy with the way things are being run at present, but I think GM is stronger than ever and that there is much more "leader" in the leadership than there was in the past.

    I don't see how you can say that "it's going way too fast." We have added, on average, 2 new members per week. If that is too difficult for you to keep up with, then you are not trying.

    I would like everyone to please understand that we are doing what we think is best for you and for everyone else. Can we make everyone 1000% happy? Of course not. It would be ludicrous to even attempt that. But I hope that if you are even 51% happy you will stick with us. That's all I ask.

    I Am Nomad
  9. Re: Namezor and other things

    don't know what to say, which makes a change ....but i'll give it a go (what a suprise! :))

    Obviously some of you are unhappy at the moment with the new GM setup and the proposed changes, which all reminds me of the good old days too.

    When I was invited to join GM I was very flattered. The clan was a small tight knit community with a range of players from standard to the highly skilled. The Dustbowl server was up and running and attracting players as it does today, and drew me to playing on the GM servers in the first place.

    Even back then there were the same arguements as we have today. You could tell there were "camps" of friends within the GM clan, and we even had 3 teams (GM'X GM'Y and GM'Z). One of the teams was made up of very highly skilled players and they knew it. I used to feel that even though I played Dustbowl seriously some comments would be posted and things would be said to imply how "noobish" people were to play on dustbowl and how everyone should play pugs to be l33t,and that the standard of enterance should be raised.

    When I play on dustbowl I play a serious game, however the main reason I play was/is becuase of the online friends I find there. When I log onto the game I tend to recongnise at least 20 players (some old some new) and I count myself lucky that they have decided to add me onto thier friends list. I do play tf2 alot and I guess people get used to me and start to talk to me and Vice Versa. On the whole people are friendly on this server and just want a good time. It's a great introduction to tf2 and gives you the basic understanding on how to play the game.

    As Nomad has mentioned the "Leadership" has been torn on how to offer a way forward to the rest of the clan to develop GM for the future. I for one have mixed views which contradict each other. :-

    I want a clan/community which focuses on and has a reputation of recruiting friendly supportive players, however I want all GM players to be the best players out there with a killer reputation!
    I want everyone to play whatever class of charecter they want, however I dont want to attack when most of my team are snipers or most of the defense have turned engi....
    I want a place that eveybody can go to forget about work or college, let your hair down and have a bloody good time and a laugh, however I want a training ground where we can fine tune our skills and own EVERYBODY!!!
    I want a recruitment system which Identifies good players, however I don't want excellent players joining who I don't even know or ever seen on the servers.
    I want my old online friends to stay in the clan, however I want new players to join the clan to keep it alive.

    The new system "tries" to accomodate both camps. Players who just want have fun on fun maps, have a chat with friends and unwind, and players who want to take tf2 to the next level and increase their skills. As I have said before both sets of GM members will be of equal "rank". Both groups will have the same voting rights, and both group will have access to currnt clan chat forum, but they will each have access to a seperate forum which the other group can only read only i.e. Private community and Clan forum. Its is important that read only access is granted, as which should encourge an openess and transparency within the clan, because at the end of the day we are ALL GM!

    The "leaders" havent focused on the practical side of the split, we have tried to focus on the aims of the clan, what are we about, what do we want and where we want to go. I am grateful to Th,Piss Nomad and Dark for their input into this.

    I can foresee though that potentially you could have a practical working situation where the Private community would be incharge of the GM spirit of the clan and could be in charge of mantaining 3 servers Dustbowl, Rotation 5 and, and ballon race server. Whislt the other group would be in chage of maintaing GM war server, rotation 4, and arena. Both groups would be resposnbile to set maps for these servers etc. Also the Private community may want to instigate suggestions on their private community forums such as tf2 fun nights (all heavies, chase the scout with 10 pyros etc etc.... or play a game of the week such as dawn of war 2. The clan section may want to set up 6v6 or highlanders etc. during the week for the clan to play or for all GM to play. They may want to Post instuctions on how to win on maps and how to plays PUGs etc. I am not saying these suggestiions are mutually exclusive, im just trying to explain in my own words how I could see the two groups working.

    When you break it down like this, then I think the decision to choose which group you want to belong gets a little bit difficult and not everybody is going to start rushing to be in the clan section just because they think its somehow superior because it won't be, and it will be time consuming due to the training you will be doing :) So think on before you make your choice!

    My biggest worry is that both groups will split off and do their own thing, that is why it is important we mantain the transparency and interaction between the two.

    There a two things I would like to add, firstly EVERYONE, i.e. the private community and new clan section must and should wear the GM tag and not create another tag. I think once you call yourself something different, you stop representing GM, and the end will surely follow. I would suggest however that 2 avaters pictures, icons could be created which we could all wear (another competition maybe in order :)) one for the Private community and one for the Clan.

    Secondly, I think Vacoy and others are right in that we should get to know people abit longer and play on ours servers a little bit longer before letting them in, so I propose that any new recruits should wear the |GM| tag for at least 1 month and increase the playing time on our servers accordingly before wearing the GM-R tag for 2 weeks.

    Sorry its getting late now, I need to get to bed, however I hope I have helped a little to ease your worries...maybe. I do hope these changes work, as you know I think this is one of the best clans out there and I just want it to get better and better.

    Disco :)
  10. Robbiebob Non Verba, Sed Acta

    Re: Namezor and other things

    Lol Disco you think I've read all of that :lol:

    But I get the point ppl...

    And Grendel, you're NOT the only one that is (a bit) unhappy about the recruitment policy as it is today. I'm not really into it as well, I really liked it when I first applied, with the duels with Core and stuff... But GM's getting bigger, and maybe it can't be done that the leaders (or deputies or whoever..) duel all applicants, and maybe that's why it's done as it is atm...

    I do hope you stick with GM grendel, cuz maybe you don't know me, I know you, and you've been a very long time with GM. So I really hope you stick with it/us a little longer you know?

  11. Vacoy some sort of fucking fish

    Re: Namezor and other things

    You should.
  12. Re: Namezor and other things

    About the avatars, I could put together a script which generates them via GD2 and/or Imagemagick so people can simply go to a page, choose their favourite colours and have a personalised GM avatar instantly :)

    The graphics would have to be relatively simple though, but with 32x32 (or whatever size they are ingame) all we really need is 'GM' and maybe a few lines/gradients etc.
  13. Vacoy some sort of fucking fish

    Re: Namezor and other things

    Aight, been thinking and I figured this out.
    we need to involve the community players in, in a way that they dont feel like they have to be a clan member (or whatever exactly its gonna be next) to be a part of the group, we should post more in general chat rather than posting in clan chat. we need to involve the community way more to make people play our servers without thinking they play to get in. When we got it this far, we can make the recruitment system harder, so people who arent that good, don't really care if they cant get in cus the community is almost the same as being in the clan itself.
    just my new look on this stuff.
  14. Ray

    Re: Namezor and other things

    I just recently joined the clan a few days ago and I haven't got much input into clan members knowing each other and not, I'm not known around GM as much as I would like to be and I try my best to help out anyone on the servers if they need it - after all, that's how you get noticed. I'm pretty sure over time I'll get to know most of you here and anyone else that I may not know. As for the name GamingMasters, I don't think it's immature, it's an attractive name and It's pretty much sums up the aura on the servers. I wouldn't mind a change but then again, a lot of people would. Hmm, I don't make sense - Do I?

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