PCW against GAMe9 highlander, feedback

Discussion in 'Events' started by Th-, 11 Feb 2009.

  1. Th-

    PCW against GAMe9 highlander, feedback

    Analyze your own game:
    1) what went right, your highlights
    2) what went wrong, how will you improve your game

    3) comments about teamplay, everything that comes to mind

    Comments from everyone who played in the pcw - Anathema, Sandy, me, Bennett, Vacoy, Pissmidget and Tom Hackers. Think about this, how did we do?
  2. Vacoy some sort of fucking fish

    Re: PCW against GAMe9 highlander, feedback

    I must say I played one of the worst matches ever, at least I did.
    the game was good, however my game was rubbish.
    when people said "here" I couldn't find the "here" or I didn't know who was talking. (just need to get to know the voices a bit better.)
    having trouble talking (yea omg.) saying 'tele up" when I meant "sentry up" and then having trouble correcting myself as well.
    I was to slow building up. I didn't pick the right spots, forgot to put the right buildings first etc, etc.
    I've played to much public engineer, WAY too much. to much on my own, need to focus more on the teamplay as an engineer.

    I'm going to start and play pug's again this weekend, and play at least one every day. I gotto improve if I want to play at a higher level.

    ~Vacoy, knowing I suck.
  3. Th-

    Re: PCW against GAMe9 highlander, feedback

    Honest analysis... good thing to see you wanting to improve. I agree with your analysis that you play too much pub engineer. Your sentries were built too slowly and in places where they had less effect than they could've had. Think support more than hard defense and you'll do much better.

    1) From my own part I'd say I managed to halt them pretty well on the flanks. 'This numlocked guy who is apparently a div1/2 demoman got me in maybe 4/5 duels, but when I won it was all good.

    2) On the other hand I failed epicly in organizing a defense and offense. At best there was someone on each side, but most of the time it was somewhat random. Especially the attack on badwater's 2nd point got delayed because of this. Luckily I figured a reason for this mistake: our squads were not very clear. Anathema worked with me much better than our scout in the match against bob, though we should develop our communication further. Ill join a mix some day soon and play with you Ana, so we can concentrate on this. The main squad with solly, heavy and medic had less cohesion as preferred as far as I know, but Id like to hear Bennett and Nick about this.

    3) On teamplay I'd say we need to cut down the chatter. Genesis mentioned he had little chance to communicate over that spam. A few messages without any purpose need to be cut out. The pyro's role was unclear again, and I take full responsibility of it. If Sandy gets his connection working and remains in the primary lineup, he needs to play together with engineers.

    During the match they managed to surprise me twice by getting close before opening fire. This was done by heavy and engineer. Their team had a few very good players including the demo and solly, but as you found out they didn't seem to have much teamplay. On dbheights you noticed this when they charged at us one by one. I reckon we won mostly because of that.

    3) An in-depth issue in our positioning: our strategy to advance to next defensive line was unclear. The must be a block on one avenue while we push on another flank. This is something we will concentrate on the next time. In fact I have a task for you which will train your strategic understanding. See examples of cp_dustbowl.

    1) Take screenshots of maps, blueprints work also if you can find them. Program called GTactix might be a good option for this, though its blueprints on official maps are in very low resolution.
    2) Draw with the "paint" or other similar program the rough defensive lines with their offensive opposites
    3) Post here and comment other's work

    Your maps:
    Anathema: pl_hoodoo
    Sandman: cp_well
    Th: [strike:31hrsdof]cp_dustbowl / cp_granary[/strike:31hrsdof] cp_gydan / pl_frontier_b2
    Bennett: cp_freight
    Garion: pl_badwater
    Pissmidget: cp_gravelpit
    Tom Hackers: cp_badlands
    Bun: pl_goldrush

    Concentrate on thinking the possible firing positions and flanking routes by members of a highlander team. Be also aware of several kinds of defenses. Do not be afraid of making mistakes, whatever you will draw your understanding will improve which will step up our teamplay significantly. Remember that even a small epiphany counts when it is multiplied by 9. Once you are done, post here and comment on others' drawing with constructive criticism. Aim to make them before Saturday.
    Last edited by a moderator: 27 Nov 2013
  4. Re: PCW against GAMe9 highlander, feedback

    ok, i'll just post here and update the post with more images later

    Badwater Basin team lines:

    Badwater Basin offensive tips:

    just some tips for offensive strategy for:
    yellow = spy
    green = scout
    red-brown = pyro
    grey = engi = crosses mark great/good/ok sentry positions depending on a current battle situation
    purple-pink = sniper

    Cap 1:
    spy can move two ways, the result of his movement should be sapping the sg that is probably gonna be on the left from the tunnel exit or in the "shack" between the two stairs, when sapped, scout and pyro runs directly towards the enemy sentry/engi and take him down (since it can happen that our spy is killed by the engi), then they can attack (especially the pyro with backburner) the enemy defending team from behind

    (the pyro cross marks the position for defending our engi building his sentry in the middle position)

    Cap 2:
    the enemy sentry will probably be placed on the roof or just near the cap behind the corner, when the gates open, spy immediatelly goes upstairs, carefully followed by scout and pyro, when the enemy sentry is sapped, again the pyro and scout go immediatelly to the roof destroying the sentry and causing fuss for the enemy on the roof so the spy can backstab them or dropping down to enemy lines to disturb them and so the main force can push quickly killing most of the enemy team

    Cap 3:
    this cap is kinda the most difficult for the spy-pyro-scout trio since there is a battle bottleneck - the house just in the middle between B and C and the space below it, so there is almost only one tip for spy - the enemy sentry will be probably placed in the blue circle, so cloak in the left house, drop down and run into the house as marked with the yellow arrow, once there, do NOT sap the dispensor and tele exit, but sap sentry and try to kill the engi FIRST, then go back and sap the dispensor and tele exit, when the sentry is sapped, the scout and pyro might try to drop down and attack the enemy force from left bottom side (i dunno now, but maybe scout can double jump from the left house to the sentry position, that would be awesome when spy saps the sentry)

    Cap 4:
    now the spy is on his own and the trio is completed with sniper. spy's work is obvious, he can either drop down from the right window (at least i think it is possible right now) sapping the blue-circled sentry or going upstairs to possible sniper position or going through the left house and then dropping down to the other blue-circled sentry or going to the left to possible sniper position. pyro's and scout's job is to maintain control of the light-blue area marked on the picture to protect the sniper which will move to the purple-pink cross having great opportunity to snipe down the whole area, when the main group is attacking, scout and pyro can eventually drop down to the bottom level of the area supporting the main attack
    Last edited by a moderator: 28 Dec 2016
  5. Re: PCW against GAMe9 highlander, feedback

    Pretty hard to make a plan...
    Well basicly defence classes should be on defence if enemy is attacking, support classes should be with offence classes when they are attacking, also at round start need probably build offensive sentry if possible and try capture central CP if fail start prepare for incoming enemyes, and stop them, while they will respawn proceed attack/capture points, if win central CP need keep sentry in window and keep an eye on engi's sentry. While enemyes is dead (respawning) need again capture point fastly if possible (scout is good for that, or soldier/demo) other classes should provide help...
    If in shorter i think need:
    1. If winning - build offensive sentry and keep enemyes feel not alone, if losing point need set up defence.
    2. Medic should over heal everyone near if possible.
    3. Sniper/spy/engi should do their job and help offensive classes if possible.
    4. Offensive classes should attack enemy's CP and capture ofc.
    5. Defense classes (heavy/demoman) should not die if possible, retreat when need, they can provide help defending points and provide help attacking.

    What you think? ...btw i think my plan is total phail, need help... :|

    Attached Files:

  6. Th-

    Re: PCW against GAMe9 highlander, feedback

    Cp_gydan is an assault/defense map with 4 points that must be captured in alphabetical order. Our goals on defense are holding a line and recovering the previous line after loosing it. Yellow crosses mark key spots that will give an advantage to the team holding them (also SG spots), green crosses mark danger for defense, such as a dangerous defensive position or likely sniper location.
    Point A: the hut on far left cannot be used since it has no route to retreat. Our goal is a strong line with sentry in central position and pyro ready to deflect enemy ubercharge. The house on top left of the picture is an ideal place for stickytraps and a beachhead for both teams to advance. On the last line on A the hut on bottom right of the picture is a key area for our soldier/demoman. If sentry can be built one of the only good places left is near the point with limited view; soldier on the hut will cover the sentryguns weak spot.
    B point is a prime example of advantage with defensive positions. We have plenty of cover and several spots with high ground. As long as he have the door inside the house on bottom left covered, their only route is the open tunnel access straight from A. Good sentry spots are the balcony in mid and immediately below it on the ground, both spots watching all entrances to B. If we lose either of the houses, defense becomes tricky. Gun can be moved to the bridge or behind the house on top right area of the pic. Losing both houses is a very likely loss.
    On the right side the narrow doorway is the only access to C. It will be held either by the soldier or demo with the assistance of the pyro hanging back. The 2 sentrygun spots in the middle both watch the main and the right. Their weaknesses are immediately behind the corner where demoman can fire 3 stickies easily and detonate in less than 4 seconds: soldier/demoman must be ready to jump up to the small roof in the middle to disrupt them. Pyro and heavy are waiting on the right near the log-wagon. Heavy must assist the sentry with enemies and destroy the stickies ASAP. Only good spots to the enemy sniper are on and under the bridge near B. Our sniper can wait behind the gun on higher ground, charging the shots targeting the offensive forces with limited risk from enemy sniper.
    There are 4 routes to the last point. House on right, one-way tunnel under the house, main on the ground and a small hut on left. Enemy sniper will have a clear vision from very far, so be mindful. Green cross on left is a spot that will give the enemy a dangerous way to charge to point. Soldier can hold the roof or ambush on the wall in the middle. It is imperative to have an eye on the lower tunnel at all times because the exit is so close to the point. Should they sneak in and start to cap, it would be hard to keep holding the point. Good SG spots are either in the doorway next to the point or on the left behind the cover. Also holding the tunnel is an easy way to sneak a scout/pyro/spy to their flanks if we are on the other side of the gate. A good spot for demo/pyro.

    This is a very small map and the author intended it to be played quickly. This is beneficial and dangerous at the same time. Because the map is so small, forward defense will be in key role steamrolling this map. It is very unlikely that we get to fight on every defensive line during a single round whether we are on RED or BLU. The first defensive teleport should be build straight to B on the left side balcony with short way to A. When we hold a line successfully it is likely that I will order a forward defense position, possibly even with sentrygun. If you haven't understood the concept before, you will once we play this map. On offense a successful fight can give us 3 capture points in a very short time. Sniper can cap while scout goes far ahead with spy to ambush key reinforcements: medic, demoman, engineer, heavy. It is vital to disrupt them establishing defense on the next line. In the close quarter battles heavy will have a key role on both sides. A key target for sniper/spy.

    Do you hear me, team?

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